THE GLADIATOR

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Posts by THE GLADIATOR

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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

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  THE GLADIATOR

  tec Nice to see you hanging on in there. You asked Terry for a few examples of self-destructive behavior and he has delivered.

  My own take on this is that once we put faith in something intangible or non physical we have no definite frame of reference, unless it is scientifically proven. Our imagination can cause us to believe that feelings and thoughts come from outside of ourselves, from an invisible realm. Once this happens we become vulnerable to trickery.

  This acceptance of being influenced by an invisible realm or spiritual connection, can slowly cause us to look to this source for answers and guidance, instead of relying on facts, research and provable markers. In this way we gradually impair our rational thought process.

  Should we join a group that shares these beliefs, we may adopt a group mentality at the expense of our own autonomy. This can ultimately lead to a loss of our own self determination or self. It has to be said that this loss of self can happen when we become deeply involved with any extreme group or movement, secular or religious. Whether this amounts to 'suicide' is what we have been debating.
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  27

  Would you still believe if there were no reward in the afterlife

  by donny in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  some months ago i was listening to a co-worker witnessing to some others about why he believes and why they should to.

  as i listened i kept hearing over and over about the "rewards" of eternal life in heaven in the kingdom of god.

  later on we had a conversation that went like this.. me: can i ask you a question about your beliefs?.

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  THE GLADIATOR

  The whole tenant of the new testament is that being a Christian means surrendering the rewards that the present world offers, for the riches of entering a heavenly kingdom. Sacrifice now to reap later. The wages sin pays is death but Christ offers everlasting life, or Jesus if we are on first name terms.

  Dead to this world alive in spirit... For the joy that was set before him...I count this world as nothing...he that loves the things of this world...I count the things of this world as nothing...alien residents, reaching out for a place in heaven... and so on.

  The prize is what is offered in place of death. If there is no reward for followers of Christ, then are on a hiding to nothing.

  All I live for and am prepared to die for is Caesars approval. Hail Caesar!
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  11

  Time to lift up the Son of Man!

  by wannabe in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  " {john 3:15 nwt}.

  " {john 17:4 nwt} there's more yet!.

  " {john 16:33 nwt}.

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  THE GLADIATOR

  Perhaps Christ needs bringing down a peg or two. After all he was only an carpenter not a scientist or anything important.

  Now he is unemployed while he waits and waits to become King. That's quiet a jump - very presumptuous.
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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
  2. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Terry Thank you for your generosity.

  *

  cyberjesus

  If we suicide our Self by having FAITH, we have the hope of resurrecting our SELF by getting rid of that FAITH.

  Very well put, that is what I was trying to say.

  *

  not a captive

  Faith is not in religion.

  And I thought Terry was controversial!
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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
  2. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Terry

  Your opening post used the analogy: You can't fire me--I quit!"

  This preserves one's dignity and autonomy in the face of an insuperable event.

  This is not the same as: "You can't fire me--I commit suicide!"

  Suicide does not preserve one’s dignity and autonomy. The person that quits, lives to fight another day, or to work somewhere else.

  This is why I see religious faith as an impairment to rationality, not always an act of suicide or self annihilation. A person can change their mind or lose their faith but a suicide leaves no room for maneuver.

  Christians claim to be born again which implies death. It is just another illusion. They do not die; they are not really born again. They are just on a trip. Drugs can produce the same effect.

  Suicide is final whereas there are degrees of loss in the matter of faith. People with a low opinion of themselves, often feel they have gained by replacing self with a group identity.

  I can see your point, though.

  Faith like drugs, can ultimately be responsible for death of the rational mind, even the body. Collective faith is surrender to a group identity that causes the loss of self.

  Mystics claim that the idea of a self is an illusion and the way to enlightenment is to break away from western thinking and realize there is no self. In most cases the requirement of putting faith in, or offering our life to an invisible God, is surrender of the self, the loss of self.
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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  mindmelda I enjoyed your posts, though some of your comments leave me confused about your view of life.

  The idea of a random universe is to me, more appealing that the concept of a vengeful God breathing down my neck. Nature’s behavior I can accept but willful acts of sabotage by a calculating god are another matter.
• 
  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
  2. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Terry - I did express my current thinking on your suicide claim, when I said:

  "I think that Terry uses the extreme word 'suicide' to make a point. Faith is perhaps just an impairment to our rational process which paves the way for acceptance of other concepts that do not require rationality. Ultimately it is a path that robs us of the ability to make useful decisions in the real world - unless there is a God, in which case the believer has gambled and won. Heads or tails - you choose!"

  People have taken on board what you have said. But while seeing faith as a threat to rationality are not yet certain that it amounts to suicide. Suicide is the total and deliberate obliteration of self. A desperate act of people who have lost the will to live. Faith while dubious is, me thinks, a lesser evil? Perhaps we have some way to travel down the road to catch up with you.
• 
  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  I have faith that the sun will rise every morning, for instance.

  To be pedantic, the sun dies not rise, the earth rotates. You have faith that the earth will continue to rotate.

  However this is not faith as used in a religious context. It is acceptance of a physical phenomena that has occurred for millions of years. You have witnessed dawn and dusk for your whole life along with billions of other people; felt the sun on your face and watched it light up the earth. You have seen the physical evidence.

  Faith, in a religious or theological context refers to belief, ranging from confident to absolute without evidence or even in the face of contrary evidence.
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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
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  THE GLADIATOR

  Some good points cyberjesus

  ---------------------------------------------------

  BurnTheShips

  I am late replying to your challenge as I have been to Rome to appease the emperor. Your poetical post show that you are making progress and becoming quick-witted.

  You threat concerns me greatly. Lions are easy to fight but Christians can be more difficult. They are slippery and can change their stance in the blink of an eye.

  The result of such a bout would be in the lap of the gods. May your Christian god be at you side and strengthen your gladius hispaniensis.

  I am not without belief or faith. I believe in gladiators. As for freydo - I believe he/she could be used as loin cloth to soak up my sweat in the heat of the colosseum!
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  99

  Why FAITH is actually a form of suicide

  by Terry in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  i once heard a psychiatrist explain suicide as the ultimate act of self-preservation.

  sound weird?.

  counter-intuitive as that sounds, he went on to explain why.. when all you value in life is threatened you do whatever desperate act that will preserve that value.. destruction of self stops the ......process.....of consciously losing.

  1. 
  2. 
  3. 
• 

  THE GLADIATOR

  Atheism can never be a faith. An atheist is void of faith in the existence of God.

  A hole in the ground is not a piece of ground that is missing. It is a void; the absence of ground.

  An atheist accepts the concept of God and the fact that some believe God to be, not just a concept, but real. While accepting the possibility that God exists, the atheist has not yet found enough conclusive evidence to turn the concept into a reality in their own mind.